It is hardly "the Vatican's 20th-century attempt at Latin prose composition". 3) The three apocrypha are omitted. It wasn't until 1590 that a standard form of the Vulgate was created, which is known as the Sixtine Vulgate. ut notum fieret nomen tuum inimicis tuis a facie tua gentes turbarentur. The most widely accepted view today is that the Septuagint provides a reasonably accurate record of an early Hebrew textual variant that differed from the ancestor of the Masoretic text as well as those of the Latin Vulgate, where both of the latter seem to have a more similar textual heritage. Scholars have been discussing this issue for millennia, but one aspect of this debate has garnered considerable attention in our circles recently: the Masoretic (MT) vs. Septuagint (LXX) debate. 384 AD: Vulgate by Jerome: 4114 AD Latin translation of Hebrew. ( Log Out /  The Stuttgart's apparatus is reliable, and this means that there is no variant in any known source for the Vulgate's text to justify any of the variant readings in the Nova Vulgata. The fact that it's a Latin translation of a critical Hebrew text does not make it a critical text, unless you want to say that the NRSV is a "critical edition" of the Bible too. The most prevalent meaning for “inanis” is “empty, void” while the most prevalent for αορατος, its correlate is “unseen, invisible, and obscure.” It should be appreciated that the difference between a world that is empty (whatever “void” means) and a world that is “unseen” and “invisible” is very large. Or, I could look and see where, if, and how the Latin and the Greek word each corresponding to one Hebrew word in the original, can be made to correspond in translation, and by this process to biangulate my way through to what is the most likely the most accurate reflection of the Hebrew as produced by the concord of the two translations. The earth, however, was void and empty and darkness was over the form of the abyss, and the spirit of God was borne over the waters. But that is most emphatically not the case here. And any description of any edition (NTL included) of any part of the Nova Vulgata as either a critical edition of a Latin text or as "the Vulgate" is also in manifest error. are they even "Silver age"? In the beginning God created heaven and the earth, The earth was unseen [invisible] and unwrought, and darkness was over the abyss, and breath of God bore down upon the water. If I want to know what the Church fathers in the East and West thought, I’m probably best off translating the Greek and the Latin so as to give each text the distinctive flavor that the its language lends to it, and which undoubtedly colored the historical reading of each. Test case for accuracy of LXX vs. Masoretic: Shem as Melchizedek. Though the primary thrust of the blog is translation from the Greek NT, also included will be some translations from the Vulgate, Septuagint, and the odd Byzantine Greek text, simply because they’re fun. Wareh 00:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC), I've removed the following text from the article. Augustine's Discussion of the Septuagint in his City of God. Strictly speaking, of the texts you mention only the Peshitta and Vulgate are truly "Bibles" (in the traditional sense). Although his claim to fame is the translation of the Bible into Latin, Jerome was also known for having a problem with anger. Challoner's "revision" was practically a re-write of the Douay bible, as was the confraternity's "revision" of Challoner. And so, as it is unlikely that people were reading, in practice, the Vulgate and the Septuagint side by side looking for commonalities in the denotative meanings of the words, in appreciating the impact of each text historically on its audience, we must in translation give each language its distinctive character and head. The article says correctly of the NTL (and I didn't put it in there), "The text is a reprinting of the New Testament of the Nova Vulgata." Thus, rather than using the Latin Vulgate, Greek-speaking Catholics historically have used the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament and the original Greek New Testament. The Latin Scriptural tradition predates the extant Masoretic texts, which are also later than Jerome. --Wetman 20:18, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC). TomHennell 11:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC), I don't have a problem with your moving of the text at all, in fact, I approve of it. I have altered rest of the Old Testament to the rest of the deutrocanonical books, as that is what I think is meant. Rwflammang 18:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC), Kudos to editor 203.152.122.129, who contributed much to the readability of this article in one fell swoop. And so, because Eastern and Western Christianity have developed along different lines, and because differences are typically more interesting than similarities, I will, as a rule, point out what the likely differences are between the two readings. The information in it did not cite sources, and frankly smells like original research. Rwflammang 16:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC), Iarann (talk) 07:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC), Relation of Nova Vulgata (and Novum testamentum latine) to Vulgate. modern translations; and the modern English translations of 4 Esdras from the Vulgate (scholarship’s 4 Ezra, 5 Ezra, and 6 Ezra), such as in the NRSV. I was under the impression that the Douay-Rheims Bible is the closest English translation to the Vulgate? 3. And the Nova Vulgata is a 20th-century pastiche & does not pretend to reconstruct anything earlier in its words (as opposed to in its meanings where it, like all other 20th-c. translations, claims to represent the Hebrew & Greek original with accuracy). Read the additions to Daniel, for example, or the additions to Esther. Resources I have read generally say it was because the language was "not Greek" which had been considered the ecclesiastical language at the time. The Aland edition is now in the catholic section. My question was more concerned with the issue of what we are saying Jerome did (or perhaps claims he had done, as telling the unvarnished truth was not one of his dominant qualities). It is a major departure in only three ways, all of which are noted in the article: 1) It follows the Vetus Latina rather than the Vulgate in Thobi and Iudith. This verse is a good specimen of what I called 20th-century Latin prose composition: the NV editors have used their modern understanding of a non-Latin (Hebrew) original to produce a totally new Latin translation. The text misleadingly infers that the whole of the Old Testament was thus translated. Doops 04:55, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC). Kurt Aland is a very well known critical scholar, and in his preface to NTL, he describes his apparatus as a criticus apparatus. Thobis for Tobias, which has nothing to do with Classical versus renaissance spelling). Change ). Comparison of Enumeration of the Psalms in the Book of Divine Worship and in the Vulgate The numbering assigned to the 150 Psalms in the Book of Divine Worship is based on the standard Hebrew text (the Masoretic Text ); it is a system being increasingly used by Roman Catholics , at least for English translations of the Psalter. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vulgate/Archive_1&oldid=984015188, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, 2 sicut exustio ignis tabescerent aquae arderent igni, 1. Those are our first two levels of meaning that can be taken from a comparative analysis: the translators intent becomes manifest, and through our knowledge of that intent, some light is shed on the Hebrew text behind both translations. In short, the Nova Vulgata authors did include large bits from the Vulgate, but I am sure they would never claim they were offering up the Vulgate. The latter method might be preferable, except that I have no idea, w/o a Hebrew text (or a knowledge of Hebrew), whether or not that theory of “bi-angulation” has any teeth. Perusing the essay does not make me confident that it is an accurate source. TomHennell 02:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC). 3. But because someone obviously spent some serious effort on it, and for the sheer quantity (if not quality) of info it contains, I decided to preserve it here on the talk page for further discussion. The last point that I’d like to make, is the small difference in emphasis between “ferebatur” and “επεφερετο.” The traditional description of the spirit as “rushing over the waters” doesn’t really give us an accurate sense of what the fathers were thinking if these two are the words that they read. The ancient Jewish translation of the Psalms into Greek (the Septuagint) placed the Psalms in the same order but made different divisions between Psalms, resulting in 150 Psalms but with a numbering that is off by one through most of the Psalter; Orthodox Christians continue to use that numbering system. He had a passion for apologetics, was an academic, wrote commentaries, and even earned positive remarks from St. Augustine. The translations as given are the results of my first impulse with relation to each word, and thus, in many cases the differences seen in translation may be a function of how well I know my Latin and Greek. I suspect that there are at least three levels of possible meaning we can take from the comparisons of these two texts. Are we sure that the name Vulgate suggests that it was written in simplified Latin closer to everyday speech? He did not consider canonical to be a synonym for scriptural. 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